FourteenerWorld Interview with Teresa Gergen    November 2005

A few years ago, I got a frantic phone call from my friend Jean.  She was desperate and needed help.  After she calmed down I was able to piece together the story.  Seems that a crazy woman was stalking her.  Everywhere she went, this woman appeared, tried to corner her, … and asked tough questions about climbing the Colorado 13ers.  The route on Unnamed 13017?  Who could possibly remember anything about that?  Was there some way I could intervene?

And that’s how I met Teresa Gergen.  We didn’t actually do a climb together until Thanksgiving of 2003.  On that first day, I messed up with my goggles in a blinding spindrift and we didn’t get our summit.  Although we did succeed a few days later, I figured out pretty quickly that I better shape up.  I think she’s forgiven me and we’ve shared some interesting adventures.

The interview reveals some things about Teresa.  She’s obviously goal-oriented and obsessively driven.  She’s organized, maybe the most efficient person I’ve climbed with.  Determination is no surprise.  Endurance and toughness?  Of course.  The interview does not tell you that she deals with asthma on every climb or that she wears electric heaters in her boots to combat the numbness of Raynaud’s Syndrome.  It leaves out more than that.  When you’re done reading the interview, revisit Teresa’s post “My stats …” from January 4, 2005.  Yes, there’s more to the 13ers than summits.
- Ken Nolan

Teresa agreed to letting FourteenerWorld interview her, and forwarded her climbing resume to us. We composed the following questions for her:

(Please hold cursor over pictures to see their descriptions)

1) When did you climb your first mountain? Which mountain was it? How old were you? 

I considered myself a trail hiker before I started climbing mountains.  I climbed a number of lower mountains in Tucson and in the Boulder area in the 1990s simply because trails went to the summits.  I don't have records for these climbs.  My first mountain over 13,000 ft in CO was Mt. Audubon on 8/10/96.  I was 32.

2) When did you decide to climb all the fourteeners? How long did it take you to finish them?
I started climbing the 14ers in 1999, the same summer in which I finished my Colorado Trail project.  My vacation time that summer was already designated for the CT, but I managed to climb 18 14ers that year after finishing the CT in both directions.  In 2000, I decided that if I could climb the Crestones, I would allow myself to commit to finishing the 14ers, but I think this was just a mind-game while I built up confidence in my climbing ability.  I knew long before this that I couldn't quit.  I climbed 25 more 14ers (including Challenger) in 2000, and the remaining 12 in 2001, so it took me 3 summer seasons.

3) What was the first technically difficult/dangerous mountain route that you encountered and how did you react? 

The first alpine route I climbed that was rated as technical was Teakettle.  I thought the climb was fun.  One of the earliest climbs I can remember that I thought was really dangerous involved traversing between a lot of the 13ers ringing the Conundrum basin.  I focused, tested holds, backed off spots I didn't trust, and kept going.  In fact, the most dangerous climbing I feel I have done is on traverses trying to combine 13ers, such as the Pt. 13,498-Pt. 13,123A and the S6-Mears traverses.

4) What were the last 5 fourteeners that you had left to finish the fourteeners? Why those? 

My last 5 14ers were Mt. Wilson, Pyramid, Maroon, North Maroon, and Capitol, but I climbed them all within about two weeks of each other.  I have always gained confidence by starting with easier things and working my way up.

5) When did you start climbing the centennial peaks? 

I finished the 14ers in August of 2001.  At that time, my climbing season ran from about late June through mid September, so I had about a month left.  Immediately after Capitol, I took a week and returned to trail hiking, exploring trails that I'd always been interested in but that had taken a back seat once I started climbing peaks.  I thought my next project might be finishing the Continental Divide Trail in Colorado, since I'd done so much of it on the Colorado Trail, but the trails I was hiking suddenly seemed unrewarding.  During that week, I ran across a signed copy of the Roaches' 13er book in a shop in Lake City, and allowed myself to stop fighting the knowledge that I had already decided to climb the 13ers.  I am very much an all-or-nothing person, and I didn't make a decision to climb the centennials – from the start, I was looking at a list of 584 more peaks.  I didn't make much of a dent in a list of 584 by mid September, so a funny thing happened.  I realized maybe I could step foot in snow after all, and climbed all through that winter.  Some of these were centennials, and others were just 13ers I could manage with limited snow skills.

6) Which centennials do you think are the hardest? 

Dallas was probably the hardest centennial.

7) Which mountains of the highest 100 peaks did you carry/use a rope on? 

We used a rope to rappel on Little Bear.  I had just finished Basic Mountaineering School and climbed it with my instructor, Sandy Heise.  It was my first Class 4 peak, and bringing a rope to practice what I'd learned didn't sound like a bad idea.  The rappel was fun.  I was belayed on Teakettle and Dallas.  On Jagged, we climbed the cruxes unroped, but purposely chose a harder route up one section to bypass an icy ledge, and I was belayed for that.  I didn't carry or use a rope on any other centennials.

8) While climbing the fourteeners and highest 100 peaks did you have any moments of doubt? 

I had doubts about my sanity while climbing Red Mountain.

9) If Colorado mountain ascents were awarded with merit badges or medals, which 10 would you be proudest to wear? 

Lizard Head for its intrinsic difficulty, but in general, I am most proud of the peaks that I had to "puzzle out."  There are many more than 10.

10) Is climbing all the 13ers a lonely project? 

No.  I didn't start meeting many people interested in climbing until I started the 13ers.  In fact, even though, each year, I have taken off more time to climb than the year before, I have climbed a smaller percentage of peaks solo each year for the past 3 years.

11) Do you have other interests/hobbies as strong as mountaineering? Do you think it’s possible that another interest could replace mountaineering for you? 

I was as obsessed about Tae Kwon Do for a few years in the early 1990s as I am now about climbing mountains.  There are other activities I do now for fun, like rock climbing and downhill skiing, but they are not passions like mountaineering is.  I know myself well enough to answer "yes" to this question.  I won't always be able to climb mountains, but I won't ever be able to manage without having a project.

12) While you were going for the 13ers, did you feel any competition from any other people who were working on the same list? 

Not at all.  I knew Dave Goldwater and Chris Ruppert were hoping to finish in 2004.  I was disappointed when they weren't able to, and very pleased when I found they had finished before me this year.  People who had finished the 13ers already, and some who were close to finishing, gave me advice, and sometimes repeated 13ers with me in winter.  In particular, Kirk Mallory, my climbing partner, who was well ahead of me in climbing 13ers when I started, has always been unbelievably supportive of my efforts to finish.

13) As one gets more and more involved in this sport, more peak lists open up that are in the realm of possibility. Some involve world travel, others involve specialized technical skills, others super endurance, etc. What personal characteristics have motivated you to follow the path you have chosen? 

Of the mountaineering possibilities I can imagine, climbing peaks in Colorado feels like a natural endeavor for me.  I am a Colorado native and have lived here most of my life.  However, the question can be reversed.  There are more personal characteristics that limit, rather than motivate, the paths and the lists I can choose.  Endurance and determination are, apparently, enough to climb a lot of peaks in CO, but without speed or strength, I doubt there can be much expeditionary mountaineering in my future.

14) If you were confined or restricted to only ONE mountain for the rest of your life, which mountain would it be? 

I think this would drive me completely insane.

15) If you were confined or restricted to only ONE Colorado USGS quadrangle for the rest of your life, which one would it be? 

I don't own a single paper quadrangle.  One of the ramifications of having a short climbing history is that topo software and color printers have always been available to me.  Hence, I have never thought of peaks as being on a quad; I think in terms of ranges.  The San Juans are my favorite range, and within that large category, I like the Weminuche and the Cimarron area the best.  My second favorite range is the Sangres.

16) At this point in your life do you think that your greatest mountaineering accomplishments are still ahead of you, or are they in the past? 

Well, that's a good question.  I hope I will complete more lists in Colorado and the West.  For the last few years, I have tried a succession of easier international peaks, and I'd like to continue doing that, advancing my mountaineering skills and experience in the process.  However, I'm quite aware that I won't get too far doing this before I reach my physical limits.

17) Some climbers hardly ever climb the same peak twice, while others like Walter Tishma or Jim Gehres are content to climb the same mountain(s) over and over again. Where do you fit in this behavior? 

I rarely climb the same peak twice, although I am quite happy to if there is a good reason involving a good friend.  This behavior appears to be changing since I finished the 13ers; Kirk is doing a great job of finding 12ers next to his remaining 13ers and coming up with routes that make us both happy.  I do have some interest in eventually completing a second round of the 14ers.  Virtually all of my repeat 14ers have either been done in calendar winter, or by a different route, or by accompanying friends who were working on 14ers.

18) What is your secret to staying physically and mentally fit for a life of continuous peak-bagging? 

Continuous peak-bagging is my secret to staying physically and mentally fit.

19) Did you find that climbing the 13ers restricted or expanded your circle of climbing partners? 

I've definitely climbed with more people since starting the 13ers than when I was climbing 14ers.  However, it's also a true statement that I've climbed with more people since FourteenerWorld grew up; I doubt I would have found people who were interested in 13ers otherwise.

20) If you had to start over again with climbing all the 13ers, would your strategy be any different? 

I'd make more of an effort to notice the 12ers.  When I climbed the 14ers, I never would have considered climbing a nearby 13er.  The only 13er I climbed while climbing the 14ers was Sheridan, and that was by accident.  I thought I was being pretty clever when I started the 13ers by focusing on higher ones first but climbing everything over 13,000 nearby at the same time, until I started climbing with Kirk and he wanted to combine 12ers with the 13ers.  Having said that, now that I'm climbing 12ers, I'm not paying the slightest attention to 11ers.

I do like the strategies I used.  I had Trails Illustrated maps from doing the Colorado Trail, so I took the 13er list and located all of them on these maps up front.  That gave me a big picture so that I could come up with trip plans and combine and climb peaks as efficiently as possible.  Another strategy I used was to try to climb the same percentage of peaks in each range each year – if I wanted to climb 20% of my remaining peaks in the Sangres, I'd also climb 20% of my remaining peaks in the San Juans that year, and so forth.  This put me all over the state each year for variety, while still allowing me to spend more time in the San Juans than anywhere else.  The system wasn't perfect – the TenMile/Mosquito and Front ranges went fast because I could do more of them in winter.  And somehow I would finish each summer without reaching my numerical goal in the Gores.

21) At what point did you commit to finishing all the 13ers, and at what point did you realize or become confident that you were actually going to be able to complete them? 

I committed to finishing the 13ers when I decided to start them.  At that time, I was a 5.5 rock climber, but I didn't doubt for a moment that I could become good enough to climb Lizard Head.  I immediately started rock climbing 1-3 times per week year round, indoors and out.  I was much more worried about access issues than about my abilities.  Once I make a decision that I want to do something, I am willing to put everything I have into it, and do whatever it takes to succeed.

22) What was your most delightful moment on a summit? 

Answering this question would require that I first define what "delightful" means to me, and I'm not sure I can, or want to, do that.

I felt a huge sense of accomplishment when I climbed Longs Peak the first time, after having circled it while hiking every trail in RMNP for several years, all the while positive that something like Longs would never be within my reach.  Last year, I climbed the Cables Route in calendar winter, again something I never even aspired to do until the opportunity was presented to me.  The sense of accomplishment was deeper this time, not because the climb was harder, but because John Prater believed in me enough to invite me.

The happiest moments I've had on summits were when my dad reached the top of Mt. Wilson after first deciding to stop at the crux, and when I saw the expressions on the faces of friends I'd repeated some of the harder 14ers with.

When my focus becomes so deep that my fingers meld with the rock and the rest of the world disappears and it's just me and the mountain, like on Lizard Head or, at the time, even Capitol, that is delightful.

One of the most beautiful days I've ever had in the mountains was spent climbing Pt. 13,153 in the winter.  That was delightful.

23) What was your most terrifying moment on a summit? 

By far, the most terrifying moments and the biggest adrenaline rushes I've had in connection with climbing mountains have occurred while driving to trailheads.  Maybe that's due to having a short climbing history.  Or maybe you just don't want to hitch a ride with me.

24) Doing as much solo climbing as you do, how are you affected by news stories like the recent one about the experienced RMNP ranger who died while traveling solo in the mountains? 

I have been a loner my entire life.  Solo climbing was a natural progression from solo long-distance trail hiking and long quiet walks.  I felt both proud and comfortable considering myself a soloist.  Climbing with friends is absolutely wonderful when the point is to have a good time, but the point of climbing everything on a list of 637 peaks is not, "to have a good time."  It takes a lot of tolerance for someone to climb with someone like me, and not too many people will do that repeatedly – unless they're a bit like me too.  After climbing only a couple times with Kirk, I had a forceful revelation – this was actually better than climbing solo.

It always affects me when I hear about a death in the mountains.  I think about my family.  Accidents happen and mistakes happen too.  Some people are more willing than others to restrict their lives by fearing the possibilities.  I prefer to live a little more intensely than that.

25) Within your elite group of peakbaggers, is there any disagreement as to what the “official” rules or ethics are? 

I think people are more concerned with understanding what it is that someone else is claiming than in making sure everyone does everything the same way.  The only "official" rule I'm aware of is that the list used to consider that one has completed the 13ers consists of 637 peaks, which depends in turn on considering a peak to be ranked only if it has a prominence of at least 300 ft.  Some people also care about named unranked peaks, and some care about unnamed soft ranked peaks, and, if so, they can claim to be working on or to have completed a larger list.  The list will change when new summit elevations are determined for all the peaks.

I don't believe most of the 13er finishers have personal rules about how much elevation they have to gain on a climb.  I generally like to feel that I worked a little bit for the day, but I don't feel a need to quantify it.  A 1500 ft gain in severe winter conditions can be harder than a 6000 ft day in summer.  If I have several short easy peaks in one area, I am likely to drive between hikes and spend 12 hours climbing multiple separate peaks, rather than hike 10 miles on a road just to gain some amount of elevation on one peak.  If I spend a month climbing on a 10-day-on, 1-day-off schedule, I'm likely to sprinkle in a couple days that only take 5-7 hours and don't feel like work.

26) Do you know and climb with any of the other 13er finishers? 

I have been fortunate enough to have shared one or more summits with Ken Nolan, Jean Aschenbrenner, Jennifer Roach, Jack Dais, Dan Bereck, and Debby Reed, and have crossed paths in the mountains and on the crags with Dave Goldwater and Chris Ruppert.

27) Have you had any memorable celebrations on mountain summits for your major milestones? 

My friend Randy Key and I, although we had never climbed together before, finished the 14ers together on Capitol.  We had a bottle of champagne waiting back at the trailhead.  A group of friends accompanied me when I finished the 13ers on Pt. 13,001, and we had a small celebration on the summit and then continued it at the trailhead.  However, I have another way of celebrating my 13er milestones.  After Jagged, my final High 100, I promptly climbed Leviathan and Vallecito.  After Matterhorn, my final High 200, we climbed Broken Hill.  After Twin Sister East, my final High 300, we climbed two 12ers.  I finished my High 400 (Pt. 13,300A), High 500 (Truro), and High 600 (Pt. 13,140C) all together in one day, and then we crossed the valley and climbed Larson Pk., a 12er.  After my final 13er, we climbed another 13er and a 12er later in the afternoon on the way home.  I guess I celebrate my climbing milestones by climbing.

28) For the record-keeping fanatics out there: Do you have a special system to record your trips, summits, comments, etc.? Is it all from memory, or do you have a mountain log to reference? 

My system pales in comparison to some – as does my memory.  For the 13ers and 12ers, I have two lists, one sorted by elevation and one by range.  I mark the dates on these lists when I climb a peak.  At any time I can tell how many peaks I have left in a particular elevation group or in a mountain range, which helps with planning what I want to do next.  I keep a free-form hiking journal, recording anything I feel like writing for every climb I do.  Some entries are factual reports, some are emotional, and some climbs lend themselves to writing stories.  In addition, I informally keep track of select statistics on a yearly basis.  Almost everything is hand written.

29) What is your favorite piece of mountaineering gear and why? 

Crampons.  If I find myself looking at something and wavering, not completely confident that I can get back down without a rope, I'm likely to keep going until I'm positive that I need to turn back.  If I find myself looking at something and wavering, not completely confident that I can get back down without crampons, I'm likely to go home.

30) What would you say is the predominant characteristic, talent, and/or skill that has helped you achieve your mountaineering goals? 

Determination first, endurance second, a willingness to be completely miserable, repeatedly, third, and a quirky thing about always wanting to get better at whatever I do, no matter how many fears stand in the way.  A reasonable tolerance for sleep deprivation helps, as does a lack of much sensitivity to exposure.

31) What are your favorite fourteener routes? 

The standard routes on Capitol, Eolus, and the Crestones.

32) What are your favorite thirteener routes? 

Lizard Head was probably my favorite 13er, but the route itself is not particularly aesthetically pleasing.  My favorite routes involved fun rock, like the Trinity traverse, Pt. 13,017, Lavender, Storm King Peak, Coxcomb; or routes I had to puzzle out, like Peak Nine, Pt. 13,085, Babcock; or long endurance runs over as many summits as I could fit in a day (or, technically, sometimes more than a day.)

33) Do you have any plans for future Colorado mountain lists? What list might you currently be working on? 

With almost 100 of 676 ranked 12ers done, I suppose I'm already too far gone not to have my eye on that list.  I have, however, requested that I be put out of my misery on the spot if I ever start talking about 11ers.  Recently, I completed the Colorado county highpoints, on the same weekend that I finished the 13ers.  I have not yet found myself called by any other Colorado lists, but there's time.

I have also completed the ranked 13ers in Hawaii, New Mexico, and Nevada.  I would like to eventually climb the Utah 13ers, select Wyoming 13ers, and the Washington and California 14ers.  Maybe by then I will have opinions about the rest of the Wyoming and California 13ers.

I do have some interest in state highpoints, particularly the western ones.

34) Within the sport of climbing 14ers there are certain written or unwritten ethical “rules”. For instance, the drop between the saddle, the minimum elevation gain, etc. Do these same ethics or rules apply to the 13ers? Do you have any customized rules or ethics? 

I guess you just nailed it.  I don't consider climbing mountains a sport.  Sports have to have rules.  Passions, maybe, should not.

35) How do you balance climbing and a career? 

I dumped the career.  In the spring of 1995, I quit a 10-year career in computer science and the paycheck and status that went with it, sold a house, and moved my family from Tucson back home to Colorado.  I spent June through Sept hiking before attempting to find a job that came with a boss who understood that it's a good thing when people consciously choose what they value in life.  A flexible half-time work schedule is integral to what I've accomplished as a climber.

36) How has being a member of the Colorado Mountain Club influenced your climbing career? 

I first learned to rock climb and climb moderate snow through CMC classes, and I met a number of friends and rock climbing partners there.  Also, I met Jean Aschenbrenner through the CMC, and when I first started climbing 13ers and asked too many questions, she quickly introduced me to Ken Nolan – one of the best things that's ever happened in my climbing career.

37) You are a charter member of 14erWorld, being with us for as long as we have been online. How has being a member of 14erWorld influenced your climbing career? 

I remember hiking the Colorado Trail in Fall, looking at the mountains I was passing below, walking on a bed of fallen aspen leaves, feeling the crispness in the air, and thinking how sad it was that no one would be here in the mountains again until next summer.  I actually thought that.

When I first started visiting 14erWorld, I read about people like this crazy guy named Kirk Mallory who not only didn't stop climbing when the snow started falling, but actually went climbing every single weekend, all year long.  Talk about a shock to the system.  I'd seen his name in registers all over by then, and that's how he was doing it – he was climbing year round.  Could I be like that?  It was definitely 14erWorld that first influenced me to consider winter mountaineering.

I never had much interest in climbing elsewhere in the US or internationally before I started seeing what so many others on 14erWorld were doing.  Could I do that too?  14erWorld introduced me to people I could aspire to be like.

For me, climbing mountains is not about having fun.  It's nice when it happens, and it must happen often enough or I wouldn't devote all my time off to it.  But 14erWorld is always fun.  And it's "home."  It's wonderful to be in New Zealand or Tanzania or Mexico City or Ouray and have that connection and find out what your friends are doing.  Thank you!

38) Do you suppose that there are some summits not meant to be climbed? In other words, do you think that are there mountains or high points where the danger in reaching the summit outweighs (in your opinion) any possible reward? 

The danger involved in reaching a summit shouldn't, in my opinion, determine whether or not you attempt that mountain.  Your skill level and, more importantly, the attitude with which you face that danger when you encounter it should determine whether you turn back.  Obviously, some summits are not meant to be climbed by some people.  It is hard to know if you're ready for the next level until you try.  And it's a blessing when someone better than you is willing to take you on and give you the chance to find out.

39) Name the top 10 Colorado mountains that you would NOT want to repeat, along with a few words describing why not for each. 

I have a hard time quantifying things like this.  I am much more likely to not want to repeat a peak because it was uninteresting than because it was difficult.  Some peaks I'd prefer not to repeat, not because I didn't like the climb to the summit, but because the approach was so much work.  An example is Pt. 13,060, next to Clark, which has a fun, short, exposed stretch at the top between its two summits, but where I all but drowned crossing a creek to get in there.  Some of the climbs that I particularly disliked had to do with the situation or conditions under which I climbed, not the nature of the peak itself.  Other climbs that were truly miserable seemed "fun" at the time because of the company, or rewarding because of the willingness to persevere.  One of my first climbs with Kirk was Pt. 13,374 in winter with a -30 degree windchill.  I came home with oozing blisters on my face where the face mask had slipped and it was too cold to tell.  I remember how excited we were afterwards, talking about the climb in a restaurant that evening.

40) If my calculations are correct, you hold the speed record for finishing the 13ers. In fact your total time to completion (6 years) was over twice as fast at the next fastest person (Ken Nolan - 14 years). To what do you attribute this incredible feat? 

Having way too much free time?  Being excessively driven by nature?

This is a hard calculation to make.  When a person intends to attempt a speed record, such as those who have set 14er speed records, that person has probably climbed some or all of the 14ers before.  They announce a start time and we watch to see how long it takes them to finish.  We don't count from the first time they ever climbed a 14er; we count the shortest amount of time that elapses during which they climb everything on the list.  My first 14er was Quandary in 1999, but I happened to climb one 13er, Audubon, in 1996.  However, I have since repeated Audubon, and, for that matter, almost all of the 14ers I climbed during my first 14er season.  The first ranked peak over 13,000 ft that I climbed and that I have not repeated is Sheridan, which I climbed on 6/20/99.  So, I can claim that I climbed all the 637 ranked peaks over 13,000 ft between 6/20/99 and 9/11/05, or slightly less than 6 years, 3 months.

Setting a speed record was never my intent.  Here's how it happened.  As I mentioned, until I started on the 13ers a week after finishing the 14ers in 2001, I'd never climbed in winter or in snow.  After I started climbing year round in the winter of 2001/2002, I took a look at my stats at the end of 2002 and started making numerical goals.  I decided that in calendar year 2003, I wanted to climb one-fourth of all the 584 ranked (non-14er) 13ers, and ended up surpassing this.  For 2004, I wanted to end the year with only 100 13ers left.  After climbing 199 new ranked 13ers, I found myself with 90 to go at the end of the year.  At that point, it seemed like a reasonable goal to try to finish in 2005.

I guess if I was interested in records, I could reclimb Sheridan quickly and claim a record of just over 4 years to climb the 584 ranked peaks between 13,000-13,999 ft.

41) You are probably also the youngest person to finish the 13ers. Hopefully you will have many decades of climbing ahead of you, if you choose. Do you think that you might someday surpass Bob Martin in his Colorado mountaineering achievements? 

Now, that's funny.  No.

I think Kirk Mallory has a good chance of becoming the youngest person to finish the 13ers within the next few years.  We've been wondering if Mike Garrett was younger than me (41) when he finished.

42) What is the single most important piece of advice that you would give to someone just starting out peakbagging? 

"Just starting out."  I think most of us instinctively know it, whenever we climb something and that climb moves us to a new level of ability or a new level of experience.  In some sense we are always just starting out as we grow as climbers.  I certainly hope I will find myself "just starting out" a number of times again in the future; I have much to learn yet with just a 6 year history.

Having said that, this is the best advice I can give.  Know yourself well, and listen to your gut instinct.  Gut instinct is not the same thing as fear.

43) What is the single most important piece of advice that you would give to someone just starting to consider climbing all the 13ers? 

Believe in yourself.  Find a mentor who isn't afraid to tell you when you're not good enough to do something and, who, when he tells you that you can do something, can judge you well enough that you believe him when you get there and find yourself doubting.  Find a climbing partner who actually understands what motivates you, who not only accepts your weaknesses, but is also willing to accept your strengths.  And, when your partner is unavailable, if your gut instinct allows it, rejoice in your time solo in the mountains.

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