FourteenerWorld Interview with Charlie Winger         May 2004

What was the first mountain you climbed and how old were you?

Charlie: The first mountain I climbed was Mt. Elbert in 1975.   I was 38 at the time.

At what point did you commit to climbing all the 14ers?  

Charlie: I decided to finish the Colorado 14’ers in 1980 and did so on Pikes in 1981.  I climbed 24 of the 14’ers in 1980-81.  During that time I traveled to California and Washington to work on the list of 14’ers in the lower 48 states.  I finished the list on the East Face of Mt. Whitney in 1986.

You went on to finish the highest 200 Colorado mountains? Are you working on the highest 300 now? If not, what made you stop at 200? 

Charlie: Two hundred Colorado peaks was enough for me, besides, that was as high as I could count.  I decided to work on Sierra and Southwest desert peaks instead.   Most of them have longer approaches, are more challenging and have better weather.  My Sierra/Desert Peaks list of completions now exceeds 200.

What is your favorite Colorado fourteener route? 

Charlie: My favorite Colorado 14’er route has to be Kiener’s on Longs.

What is your favorite mountain area in Colorado? in the US? in the Americas? in the world? 

Charlie: The Sangre de Cristo range would be my choice of favorite mountain areas in Colorado.  In the U.S. I would have to go with the Sierra’s as my favorite.  In the Americas, what’s not to like about the peaks in South America.   The Himalayan peaks stand on their own.   So many peaks, so little time.

What was your most delightful moment on a summit?

Charlie: Finally getting to the summit of Denali was very special.   I organized and lead the trip after getting blown off the mountain the prior year.

What was your most terrifying moment on a summit? 

Charlie: Not on the very summit, but getting caught in a severe wind storm at 16,000 feet on the West Rib of Denali was very memorable.   Estimated wind speed of 180 mph, ambient temperature around –40F.   Tent collapsed, climbing partner froze both feet and was evacuated by helicopter.  I frostbit all of my fingers.   Are we having fun yet?

Briefly, tell us your history of volunteer work (trip leading, teaching, etc) for the Colorado Mountain Club.

Charlie: I joined the CMC in 1976 and took the Basic Mountaineering School that year.   I went on to teach BMS, Basic and Intermediate Rock climbing, ice climbing, first aid, X-C skiing, telemark skiing, High Altitude Mountaineering School and chaired the Computer Committee.  I’ve been a trip leader for the Denver Group of the CMC for years.

Do you have any plans for future Colorado mountain lists?

Charlie: No future plans for Colorado lists.   I finished the 64 Colorado county highpoints list a couple of years ago so that should just about do it for me.   Anyhow, who needs lists?

If someone was to ever write a book about Colorado peakbaggers, starting with people like Carl Blaurock, Bill Erwin, Albert Ellingwood, Bob Ormes, etc, who are some of the people that should get separate chapters? 

Charlie: Gerry and Jennifer Roach, Bill Forrest, Barbara Lilley and Gordon McLeod, Steve Hoffmeyer and we could never agree on this list.   Someone will always say: “How could you leave out _______!”.

Have you had any memorable celebrations on mountains?

Charlie: Memorable?  Perhaps.  I spent two birthdays in succession on Denali.  I vaguely recall being dragged back to my tent after too exuberant a birthday celebration high up on the mountain.  There were other memorable celebrations, but we won’t go there.

Who were your early mountaineering or climbing mentors? Who have been some of your mentees?

Charlie: Alan Mosiman taught me a lot about rock climbing.   Tom Maceyka and Dave Reeder have always been especially helpful with ice climbing.   Randy Murphy and Dave Cooper have been tried and true mentors over the years.  Other than that I would have to say that everyone I have climbed with these past years has played the role of mentor and mentee at some time or other.   We never quit learning from each other.

For the record-keeping fanatics out there: Do you have a special system to record your trips, summits, comments, etc.? Do you have a mountain log to reference? What format is it in? 

Charlie: My record keeping consists of annotating the date I completed a climb/peak in the respective guidebooks.   I sometimes log the total number of peaks and elevation gained in a given year.   I keep the log using Microsoft Access®.

What is your favorite piece of mountaineering gear and why? 

Charlie: Tough choice.  I guess I would have to say my hiking boots as they take me all of those neat places where I do the activities I enjoy the most.

What would you say is the predominant characteristic, talent, and/or or skill that has helped you achieve your mountaineering goals?

Charlie: Enthusiasm, tenacity and humor.  Don’t climb if you can’t take a joke. 

What is your favorite USGS quadrangle? 

Charlie: In Colorado, Storm King Peak.  

Can you contrast peak bagging vs. rock climbing with regard to physical and mental effort required, enjoyment and satisfaction derived, social aspects, etc.?

If you consider “peak bagging” to include high altitude expeditionary mountaineering and “rock climbing” to be basically “day tripping” then it takes a hell of a lot more planning, commitment and effort to peak bag than it does to rock climb.  The satisfaction of reaching a summit after all the planning, training and hard work on a mountain is very special since it usually spans a long period of time.  I have moments of happiness when I complete a “personal best” rock climb but it doesn’t match the satisfaction derived and camaraderie experienced after months of combined working toward a common goal.  Its not necessarily reaching the summit that counts; it’s still speaking to each other after the climb is over that is the most important.

Which are your top 5 favorite Colorado Thirteeners? 

Charlie: Lizard Head, Jagged, Vestal, Dallas, Coxcomb

Which are your top 5 favorite Colorado rock climbing routes?

Charlie: Mountaineering Rock: Lizard Head, Kit Carson (Prow), Ellingwood Arete

Pure rock: Bastille Crack, Mesca-Line, Washington Irving, Chrome Plated Semi-Automatic Enema Syringe, Lovers Leap

Which are your top 5 favorite Colorado ice climbing routes?

Charlie: Ames Ice Hose, Bridalveil Falls, The Fang,  All Mixed Up, Choppo’s Chimney

What is your all time favorite trip you have done in wilderness?

Charlie: A couple of years ago Diane and I, along with the Howe family from Maryland, did a trip to climb the highpoints of Wyoming, Montana, Utah and Idaho (Gannett, Granite, Kings and Borah). 

Have you mostly climbed solo, or do you usually climb with one or more climbing partners?

Charlie: I prefer climbing with partners, for me that’s an enjoyable part of the trip.  Besides, they help pay for the gas!

Carl Blaurock said, "I was born a hundred years too soon. We just had hemp rope, and we didn't even use that right." Do you ever wish your mountaineering career had occurred in a different time period?

Charlie: Not really.  I’ve seen quite a bit of history in my time.  Think of Messner soloing Mt. Everest without oxygen as well as the improvements in equipment we’ve experienced.  Groups like the San Juan Mountaineers did many outstanding routes without the benefit of most of this new-fangled equipment.

You've climbed all over the world. There are more than a few 14erWorlders who would love to know if you have any favorite pre- or post-climb bars that you would recommend.

Charlie: Bars are too noisy and smoky.   Just drink from the bottle with your climbing partners after the climb, you’ll have more fun.

You seem to be a combination of technical climber and high pointer. What do you enjoy most about these two sometimes disparate activities? 

Charlie: Some of the highpoints include substantial technical difficulties.  I really enjoy the adventure of tackling a new peak where you have to work out the technical difficulties as you encounter them.  It’s a combination of everything that goes into being a mountaineer that I enjoy.

We've heard you've made first ascents on some local rock routes (Castlewood Canyon?). What are your first ascents? And tell us about the process and rewards of making a first ascent.

Charlie: I sincerely doubt that I’ve really done any first ascents per se.  Someone we never heard about did the first ascent, we just mostly wrote it up and gave it a name.

Any first ascent I may accidentally have done would be the result of my getting off route.  The only “first ascent” I can remember was a rock route we did in Castlewood Canyon called “Yukon Jack”.  Alan Mosiman named a series of climbs in Jackson Creek under the auspices of the “Winger Wall”.   Probably because I took too many “Wingers” trying to lead them.

You've been ice climbing for many years. What are your impressions on how this sport has evolved?

Charlie: Who can forget some of those early heavy tools and funky ice screws and snargs.  Early on I climbed with non-rigid crampons and mountaineering boots whose toes looked like elves slippers from so much wear.  There’s no doubt you can be a better climber with modern equipment.   Those new clip on leashes are fantastic for leading.   Combine them with the new express ice screws and my sister could be an ice climber in a full body cast.  Still old fashioned,  I like leashes and dual front points. Its doubtful that I’ll ever make the switch over to leash less tools.  

What is your best tip for up-and-coming ice climbers?

Charlie: Practice, practice, practice, practice.   Have I said it enough times?  As in rock, you’ve got to want to do it, don’t make a half-assed attempt at getting proficient.  I’m still hard at work trying to get better at both.

You've had some back surgery over the years. Has that slowed you down at all (doesn't seem like it to the outside observer)?

Charlie: Back surgery has made me smarter.   Let the “young bucks” carry the heavy loads.  I have a self-imposed weight limit which includes my share of the group gear.   I stick to that limit religiously.   Overall, I’m climbing better than I ever have.  My enthusiasm and determination more than compensate for those temporary physical setbacks which seem to plague us all.

What do you consider your biggest mountaineering and/or climbing accomplishment?

Charlie: Climbing for almost 30 years and not having myself or a climbing partner have a serious injury or death.  Also, I’ve offended less than 50% of my climbing partners.

What got you started in guide book writing? You have 2 guide books out now - Highpoint Adventures and Great Sand Dunes. Why did you and Diane decide to write these books?

Charlie: We just enjoy writing about the things we like doing.  We’ve all looked at guidebooks and cursed the author for incomplete descriptions, etc.   We thought we could build a better mousetrap.  A special thanks here to all of those folks who have pointed out the errors and omissions in our books; that’s what makes the next editions better.

Do you have any other guide books in the works? Looks like a Trad Guide for Joshua Tree is due out in this fall.

Charlie: The Trad Guide to Joshua Tree is scheduled to be in book stores in September.   We’re really excited about it.  The Guide is a direct result of our climbing at Jtree for the past 15 years.   We’ve talked with many climbers who wanted more information about moderate routes, so we decided to put together a list of these and the book just followed along.

We’re considering authoring an anthology on the Roach’s guide books.  We’ll probably have to put out a yearly update!

What is the single most important piece of advice that you would give to someone just starting out mountaineering?

Charlie: Don’t climb with me!  Actually, purchase the best equipment available, surround yourself with compatible climbing partners and just have fun.  Don’t get caught up in the numbers game.   Do a list or climb because you really want to do it.   I have just as much fun climbing 5.6 rock as I do on harder routes.  My idea of a 5.10 is two 5.5’s in a single day.  Lastly, climb safely and wear that helmet.

Most important: always check your pack for rocks!